Scaling To 200 Units And Giving Back

On Episode 5 of The Wholster Real Estate Wholesaling Podcast, we chat with Matt Derby of Derby Real Estate Development. Matt started his journey into real estate in the lending space before he transitioned into full-time flipping, wholesaling, and property management of his over 200 single family units. Hear Matts story and grab your note pad as he lets you in on what it takes to grow a portfolio of this scale.

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Transcript

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Alright, everybody, this is the Wholster

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Real Estate Wholesaling podcast episode number five.

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Today we have Matt Derby

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from Derby Real Estate Investment.

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How are you?

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I'm great.

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Finally. Right. We've been trying to get you on here for a while.

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You're a busy guy.

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I'm probably more to blame than you, for sure.

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Well, I did drop the ball.

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Well, we won’t talk about that haha.

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But, yeah, I'm glad to have you on here.

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We've known each other for, gosh, quite a while.

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And interestingly enough, we kind of both started off

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in similar real estate ventures.

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We were both doing some lending I think when we met.

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Yeah, I was doing - You were doing short term lending because I was

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using your company to to borrow through.

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And I was doing more of kind of traditional, conventional

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and FHA financing.

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But yeah, I mean, oh, certainly similar stuff.

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So what,

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what I don't know is what you were doing before you got into lending.

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What what is kind of the story that

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got you into real estate in the first place?

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Into...

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are you including lending in that or into actual real estate investment?

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So for me, I was interested in investment before I got into lending,

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and I kind of saw lending as a transition from a full time

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corporate job completely unrelated to real estate.

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So I could get into real estate full time.

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Is that is that how it played out for you, or was it a different kind of story?

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Well, not quite.

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I mean, I did not get into lending in order to get into real estate investment.

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Not to say that it wasn't on my mind

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when I did, but I didn't look at it as a stepping stone to get into it.

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But I was in the lending world for a man,

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let's just say,

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about a decade before I started doing real estate investment.

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Oh, wow.

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So yeah, I got into lending.

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Actually, I went to school.

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I was a finance major.

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I thought I would be like a hotshot stockbroker.

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And I got out of school and that the dot com

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bubbles were bursting around me and

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there the job market was not great.

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So I was basically a bartender for, I think about a year

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coming out of college and

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my father

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actually used to sell BMWs And I think at one point he was rated

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like the number one BMW salesman in North America or something like that.

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So. To think that

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the apple didn't fall far from the tree,

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but he said, look, all these guys are coming in.

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They keep buying all these cars, all these BMW cars,

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which obviously are a nicer luxury car.

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And, you know, all these guys, they do mortgages.

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So, you know, why don't you get into it?

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Why don't you check it out? And

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I, I got into it.

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I really didn't like it.

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In fact, I kind of basically hated it.

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But obviously, at some point it kind of stuck.

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And I figured out a way to like it and be successful in doing it.

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And I stuck with it for a long term.

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In terms of real estate investment, I really kind of two things.

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I had a good friend of mine whose brother in law was buying up

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a lot of rentals right after sort of the

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the big crash of 07, 08, 09.

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And he was basically said, look, I mean, they are just like

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giving these houses away and that kind of,

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you know, open my eyes and ears to it.

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But even then, it still it took me a long time

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until finally I met

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my now wife and she kind of pushed me a little bit.

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Her father knew

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just everything about construction.

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I did not come from a construction background, so that was really the one.

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Just very, very scary thing to me is, yeah,

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you think about real estate investment, you obviously think about renovations.

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And I did not know, you know, I’m a numbers guy.

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I'm a finance guy.

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I'm not a, uh, I'm not like,

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Hey, look at this junker of a house and,

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you know, know what you have to do and all that fun stuff.

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So he really certainly helped me get over that,

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that hump and, and, and,

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you know, sort of got me out of the gate doing things.

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Okay.

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So you did a couple of deals with him.

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How many deals did you guys do?

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Well, I mean, technically, we didn't I didn't really do it with him.

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I just, the first couple of deals I found on MLS and

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really just kind of went in optimistically,

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hoping that it would work out on some level because, again,

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between him and my wife, they were like,

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yeah, you know, I kind of know what to do.

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And I was like, Well, great.

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I know nothing what to do, except I know about, you know, financing that.

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So obviously that was was kind of taken care of.

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But it's like, all right, you know, let's just we're going to just dive

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into the water headfirst and kind of hope it works out.

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He really helped me a lot on the first couple projects

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and obviously learned a lot.

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And I, I didn't

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the first two were so cumbersome.

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They they probably between the two of them took up almost two years.

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So, uh oh. Actually, the second one.

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So after that, it was kind of like, all right, you know, it's,

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it's kind of time to go out on my own and kind of

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let him retire from, you know, showing me the ropes.

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Right.

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Now, those those first two, did they have just very extensive rehabs

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or did you run into some major issues

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along the way?

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Yes. No, the first one was went really pretty smoothly.

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There was really no major hiccups.

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Kind of your typical stuff that comes up during a renovation but,

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it was a smaller renovation.

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And we actually

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between my father in law, my wife and myself, we did about 75% of it.

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I mean, he you know, he didn't literally show me what was needed.

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He also showed us how to do it, if not doing a lot by himself.

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I mean, my wife and I had

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we weren't married at the time,

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but we had just met, at even like when we went to

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wherever we would go, you know, if we were in Miami,

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sitting by the pool having drinks for a weekend.

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My father in law was was at the house at this house

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at least Saturday and Sunday from 8 a.m.

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until probably 5 p.m., just, you know, working his butt off

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for us.

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And we spent a lot of weekends in there as well.

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So the first one - lighter rehab, was a really good kind of starter project,

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if you will, And so we got that knocked out.

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It sold relatively smoothly and quickly and

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really kind of swung for the fences on the second one,

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it was like just a monster monster.

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I mean, you know, full well a full gut rehab down in Canton, and,

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uh, I just - where

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was - it was way more , I bit off way more than I could chew.

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And we got through it.

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But, you know, I, I, I got quickly got into the project and realized that

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if we were going to do it, all hands on, it was going to take us three years

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to fix this house.

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And plus we just needed subcontractors like

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for permitting and other issues.

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You know, I'm not going to rewire a whole house. So.

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So yeah, the second one was, took

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probably close to 18 months from start to finish.

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That's a long time.

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Did you, hopefully didn't use hard money for that.

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No, it was it was a lot of cash.

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It was good in the sense that I think we actually made a little bit of money on it,

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even with that that holding time, which is, you know, pretty, pretty unbelievable.

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But at the same time, I was really handcuffed because pretty

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much all of the money that I had to invest

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was tied up in this house, in this this house.

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So I would see all these opportunities and stuff

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that would come up and especially towards the end,

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you know, when it was like, all right, I've kind of I've

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made it to the other side of the mountain, I'm kinda, you know, I'm at a point

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at a point where we're pretty close to wrapping this thing up.

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I still could not move on to a subsequent project

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because, again, I just had all that money tied up.

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Right?

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Yeah, that can get challenging,

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especially in an environment where it might be difficult to refinance.

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I don't know what I don't know what the timeframe is here at this point

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in your story, but it could have been maybe in those sorts of times.

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So as you

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as you grew this flipping business, you did start to transition into rentals.

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As I understand.

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I did, yes.

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Yeah, I have told the story a lot.

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I was was doing these flips that was to give you a feel for the time.

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I think

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the first flip got done in either

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it was 2013 or 14.

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I really, I guess I should probably know that.

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But when I started getting into rentals and

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I was kind of under renovating them, I was really I mean,

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you talk about the definition of lipstick on a pig.

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I was just kind of doing the bare minimum.

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And you hear a lot from maybe a lot of wholesalers.

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There's probably a lot of jokes or phrases out there.

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But, you know, was just you know, you don't need to do a whole lot.

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And I really took that, you know, to heart.

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And I didn't do a whole lot and I didn't do enough.

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So when I started kind of building a portfolio,

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I quickly just got bamboozled with all kinds of

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just maintenance and

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just a lot of headaches.

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And I actually basically, I so I started and then I actually stopped

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because it was like, man, these, these five or six rentals that I have

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are just costing me boatloads and boatloads of money.

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It's like this is just never stopping, you know, it's like we're, we're,

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you know, the levee just the water just keeps keeps running out.

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And and the water was our bank

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account being cleaned out month over month.

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So and then I so I did some more renovations

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on on the flip side and

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kind of came back to it one day and said, you know what I caught

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a really failed forward, as the saying goes the first time.

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But I have a little bit more experience under my belt now

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and I'm really going to kind of just give it a second shot

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and I'm just not going to give up and I'm probably going to make more mistakes

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and I'm just going to keep doing it until I really have a good grasp on it.

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And that's, you know, basically what I did.

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I just kind of kept going, kept kept fighting through the headaches and

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the small nightmares and,

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you know, and worked it all out.

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So what was the biggest shift that you had about

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when you first started buying rentals to

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I guess, when you decided that you were going to keep going?

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What did you change?

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Well, I started renovating things

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more diligently that that was one of the main things.

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You know, I realized that 80 year old plumbing

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does not last much longer than 80 years,

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and 30 year old furnaces don't last much longer

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than 30 year old furnaces and 30 year old roofs don't you know.

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They hardly last 20 years, actually.

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I said some of those hardly last 20 years.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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I mean, especially depending on what kind of roof

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it is. But.

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And also I, I didn't really,

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you know, we met because you were doing hard money and I,

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when I first kind of started things, even the first two flips I used,

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the first one I used conventional financing on,

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and then the second one I was cash.

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Like I said, with some I had some private money raised in there

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as well at very low rates, fortunately.

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But that that also, you know, the financing part of it,

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realizing that I could buy these properties

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with little to no money

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in the deal also was a total game changer for me.

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It was like oh wow, I can I can buy a house with

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you know, three, five,

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$10,000 during closing where I'm coming from, the traditional,

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uh, lending world where it's like, Oh, yeah,

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you know, you need 20% to, to put down on a rental,

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maybe not a primary residence, but on a rental you need 20, 25% down.

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So again, it was just the renovating and the financing and it was like,

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wow, I can I can do more with less in terms of capital.

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Right.

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As long as you can get them done in, you know, less than 18 months,

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you know, So don't want to hold hard money for that long.

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So what does your business look like today?

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Where did where did all that flipping take you.

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Of the flipping really didn't do much for me.

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It took off just about all of my my hair,

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as you can see, kind of put some some some bags under my eyes.

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But yeah, no, I kind of stopped doing that. I,

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I, I've done some flips.

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I did a couple last year, mainly because the market was just,

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you know, I told everybody that we may never see a market

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like this ever again,

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but I at one point I just grew very tiresome of doing the flips.

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It just kinda, there's just a lot that goes into them.

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And I quickly really liked doing the the rentals.

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They were just

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easier to, to get done.

00;16;07;06 - 00;16;10;10
We like to put out a good product with the rentals,

00;16;10;19 - 00;16;13;17
but you still just don't have to go to the extremes

00;16;13;17 - 00;16;17;11
that you do with with flips and even some on the flips.

00;16;17;11 - 00;16;20;24
I was probably not renovating them to the level that I should have.

00;16;20;24 - 00;16;23;18
It was like, Oh yeah, we can keep that, keep that, and

00;16;25;01 - 00;16;27;22
you know, that, that probably ended up actually cause

00;16;27;24 - 00;16;28;29
I thought it was saving me money,

00;16;28;29 - 00;16;32;00
but it probably cost me money because the homes would have sold for a lot more.

00;16;32;23 - 00;16;35;04
But as far as the here and now goes,

00;16;35;22 - 00;16;39;21
I have, uh, I'm in my office in Columbia.

00;16;39;21 - 00;16;45;02
I have three employees that work with me in my office.

00;16;45;18 - 00;16;48;07
I have an acquisitions

00;16;48;14 - 00;16;51;29
agent or acquisitions guy that that works remotely.

00;16;53;00 - 00;16;55;05
And then obviously a slew of contractors

00;16;55;05 - 00;16;58;20
that work on the houses day in and day out.

00;16;59;23 - 00;17;02;13
We actually just broke

00;17;02;13 - 00;17;06;06
the 200 property, well, one in the same.

00;17;06;06 - 00;17;09;23
I was going to say 200 unit, they're all one unit properties.

00;17;09;23 - 00;17;13;05
So we just eclipsed

00;17;13;05 - 00;17;16;18
the 200 mark.

00;17;16;18 - 00;17;18;29
I actually closed on one today before the podcast.

00;17;18;29 - 00;17;20;29
I think that was like 203. So.

00;17;21;13 - 00;17;22;21
Wow, Congratulations.

00;17;22;21 - 00;17;24;04
Yeah, Yeah. Thank you. It's

00;17;27;13 - 00;17;30;06
it's been a lot, I guess.

00;17;30;06 - 00;17;30;19
Yeah.

00;17;30;19 - 00;17;34;01
To put it simply, but so yeah, I mean, really,

00;17;34;06 - 00;17;37;02
we're we're still doing some assignments.

00;17;37;02 - 00;17;39;14
We talked about it before we kind of got going.

00;17;40;11 - 00;17;42;20
I was doing a lot of marketing.

00;17;42;20 - 00;17;46;24
I've kind of dialed that back, but we are still doing some assignments

00;17;47;04 - 00;17;52;09
from time to time, but mainly we're just kind of growing the portfolio.

00;17;52;19 - 00;17;56;10
I have in-house property management, which is what

00;17;56;10 - 00;18;00;23
some of my employees help me out with and you know,

00;18;00;23 - 00;18;03;28
we'll probably buy,

00;18;04;03 - 00;18;05;16
I would say

00;18;05;16 - 00;18;09;01
we've bought right around 70 houses the last two years

00;18;09;01 - 00;18;13;08
and I think we'll probably do, especially if rates continue to trend down.

00;18;13;08 - 00;18;16;14
I think we'll probably do around that number this year.

00;18;16;14 - 00;18;19;15
I thought that we would do a lot less last year when rates started

00;18;19;15 - 00;18;23;12
getting real funky and and crazy on us, but

00;18;24;16 - 00;18;25;20
we still

00;18;26;07 - 00;18;27;03
bought a lot.

00;18;27;03 - 00;18;31;23
And so I think we'll probably end the year,

00;18;31;23 - 00;18;34;29
probably in the 265-270 range.

00;18;36;04 - 00;18;37;29
Do you see any end to that?

00;18;37;29 - 00;18;40;16
Where are you going? What are your goals?

00;18;40;16 - 00;18;42;23
Yeah, that's something that

00;18;42;24 - 00;18;45;24
admittedly I guess you could say I struggle with

00;18;46;15 - 00;18;53;22
because I, I guess I kind of talk out of both sides of my mouth on it.

00;18;53;22 - 00;18;56;24
I, I love setting goals.

00;18;57;16 - 00;18;57;24
Uh Huh.

00;18;57;25 - 00;19;02;26
And because I think it really is kind of most people's kind of North Star,

00;19;02;26 - 00;19;09;27
it's kind of like their motivator when they wake up in the morning.

00;19;09;27 - 00;19;10;06
Yeah.

00;19;10;06 - 00;19;15;06
Actually at one point I wanted to be, I think it was at like 206 or 209

00;19;15;06 - 00;19;18;29
and I'll be there within 30 days and I'm not

00;19;19;04 - 00;19;24;02
you know, I'm not hanging it up there.

00;19;24;02 - 00;19;27;06
So the the answer is, I don't know,

00;19;28;21 - 00;19;31;16
because I just, I at the same time,

00;19;31;16 - 00;19;36;16
I think the goals are, you know, you set goals well, I want to be at 50 units.

00;19;36;16 - 00;19;41;01
I want to be out at 100 units, you know, 100 for me, it was like a big milestone,

00;19;42;03 - 00;19;43;16
as it should be there.

00;19;43;16 - 00;19;46;14
There's a lot that goes into buying 100 houses

00;19;46;14 - 00;19;49;21
and renovating most, if not all of them. Yep.

00;19;50;02 - 00;19;52;04
But I can't even tell you what

00;19;52;04 - 00;19;55;04
the only reason that I know what house was the 200th one

00;19;55;04 - 00;19;58;08
is because a few people kept asking me, When are you going to be at 200?

00;19;58;08 - 00;19;59;07
When are you going to be at 200?

00;20;00;11 - 00;20;03;02
So and also, ironically,

00;20;03;02 - 00;20;06;28
I did count them at the end of last year, and that was I was at like 198.

00;20;06;28 - 00;20;14;02
So I was like, okay, well, the second or third house I buy will be the 200th. So.

00;20;14;20 - 00;20;17;25
So yeah, you know, I don't, I don't know

00;20;17;25 - 00;20;21;17
kind of where that, that, that train stops, so to speak

00;20;22;28 - 00;20;26;14
because I could say, well, 500.

00;20;27;01 - 00;20;30;21
But I think that it's just unrealistic

00;20;31;08 - 00;20;34;28
for me to hit a certain number and wake up that day

00;20;34;28 - 00;20;38;19
or the next day and say, okay, I'm throwing in the towel, I'm done

00;20;39;27 - 00;20;42;09
the way I think that I kind of envision it

00;20;42;09 - 00;20;46;13
It is more of a just kind of a random it might be just one

00;20;46;13 - 00;20;49;18
random event where I just kind of wake up one day and say, you know what,

00;20;50;24 - 00;20;52;07
I'm I'm done.

00;20;52;07 - 00;20;55;01
I don't you know, I don't need more.

00;20;55;02 - 00;20;56;18
I don't I know.

00;20;56;18 - 00;20;59;14
Full, full well, I don't really need more than what

00;20;59;14 - 00;21;04;10
I have right now, but I once it becomes kind of more of a chore

00;21;04;10 - 00;21;07;00
and more of a stressor and more of a headache to do it,

00;21;07;22 - 00;21;10;14
then maybe again, I wake up one day and say, You know what?

00;21;10;15 - 00;21;14;03
I'm I just kind of I think now is is the time.

00;21;14;03 - 00;21;17;22
And I don't know whether that happens next month, next year or,

00;21;18;00 - 00;21;19;23
you know, ten years down the road. So

00;21;21;08 - 00;21;23;08
I think that, you know, not to kind of start

00;21;23;08 - 00;21;26;11
getting real deep and philosophical, but I think that

00;21;28;24 - 00;21;31;03
defining where you want to be

00;21;31;03 - 00;21;34;21
and actually adhering to it and sticking to it is

00;21;36;03 - 00;21;37;04
it's a gift and a curse.

00;21;37;04 - 00;21;39;05
It's it's one of the toughest things to do.

00;21;40;07 - 00;21;42;28
It's a gift in the sense that, you know, people want to keep pushing

00;21;42;28 - 00;21;46;07
and pushing and doing more and a growing and expanding,

00;21;47;01 - 00;21;51;23
but also, you know, you you're you're kind of chasing this

00;21;52;00 - 00;21;55;25
this never ending end of the road, you know?

00;21;55;25 - 00;22;00;10
So that's why I think you hear also that, you know, you've got to love the journey.

00;22;00;10 - 00;22;01;06
And that's what I'm saying.

00;22;01;06 - 00;22;04;09
That's essentially what I'm saying when I stop loving the journey,

00;22;04;09 - 00;22;06;29
because there's no there is no end of the race.

00;22;06;29 - 00;22;10;06
There is no, you know, magic Top of the mountain.

00;22;11;05 - 00;22;12;11
I actually posted something

00;22;12;11 - 00;22;15;21
on Facebook the other day, which I think you had commented on.

00;22;15;21 - 00;22;19;25
You know, people think, oh, well, when I have 100 houses, when I have 200,

00;22;19;26 - 00;22;20;25
when I have 500 houses,

00;22;20;25 - 00;22;23;02
I'm just going to be happy and it's just going to be, you know,

00;22;23;28 - 00;22;25;14
rainbows and unicorns.

00;22;25;14 - 00;22;29;10
It's just it's not the way that things happen.

00;22;29;21 - 00;22;30;22
You know,

00;22;31;11 - 00;22;33;13
if anything, things get more hectic.

00;22;34;00 - 00;22;37;25
You know, I could make an argument that, hey, your best bet is to buy

00;22;37;25 - 00;22;41;19
25 houses and try and get them all free and clear. And,

00;22;42;20 - 00;22;44;24
you know, you'll have a lot less

00;22;46;05 - 00;22;50;04
overhead and tenants and just overall stuff

00;22;50;04 - 00;22;53;25
to deal with than 200 houses with,

00;22;54;14 - 00;22;57;05
you know, debt and 200 tenants on it.

00;22;57;05 - 00;23;01;07
So again, it's a it's a very,

00;23;01;16 - 00;23;03;23
very tricky question to answer.

00;23;04;07 - 00;23;09;00
In my head, owning 200 units is just what it takes to get

00;23;09;00 - 00;23;12;28
there is not something that you, you and you see anyone

00;23;12;28 - 00;23;16;25
often achieve, especially, you know, single family, individual houses.

00;23;18;08 - 00;23;21;17
So you've accomplished a lot, it sounds like

00;23;21;26 - 00;23;26;21
the systems are still working, things are going pretty smoothly.

00;23;26;21 - 00;23;29;14
Do you ever find yourself getting distracted like, well, maybe I'll

00;23;30;07 - 00;23;34;09
maybe I want to try this other thing?

00;23;34;09 - 00;23;40;02
Well, I know, you know, full well I got into the the e-commerce space

00;23;40;02 - 00;23;44;14
and, you know, because I was told that it was this ultra

00;23;44;14 - 00;23;47;06
passive way to, you know, be making

00;23;48;09 - 00;23;50;21
5000 bucks a month or whatever. Yeah.

00;23;50;23 - 00;23;54;05
The pipe dream was there.

00;23;54;05 - 00;23;57;14
So, yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's not to say

00;23;57;14 - 00;24;00;16
that I don't look at some other stuff.

00;24;00;16 - 00;24;02;20
I didn’t really kind of get hooked in by crypto.

00;24;02;20 - 00;24;07;02
I bought a very, a little bit of it and I haven't even looked at my,

00;24;07;02 - 00;24;10;24
my balance but I it's that that that's probably about

00;24;10;24 - 00;24;14;28
80% gone for that the few thousand bucks that I threw at it. But

00;24;16;14 - 00;24;16;23
you know

00;24;16;23 - 00;24;19;26
obviously for people in real estate I think that

00;24;19;29 - 00;24;23;24
the the shiny object is you know, doing

00;24;23;24 - 00;24;26;24
these bigger deals, multifamily

00;24;27;25 - 00;24;30;21
stuff like that, which

00;24;31;02 - 00;24;33;28
I think there are some some legitimate

00;24;36;01 - 00;24;39;21
reasons why people people say that, you know, it is

00;24;39;29 - 00;24;43;11
it is easier to deal with 100 people under one roof

00;24;43;28 - 00;24;48;28
than it is 100 people over a hundred under 100 roofs that, you know, could be 100

00;24;48;28 - 00;24;51;15
miles, one might be a hundred miles from one or the other.

00;24;53;04 - 00;24;57;07
But, you know, but I at the end of the day,

00;24;57;08 - 00;25;02;16
as I kind of grow older, I'm kind of getting more comfortable

00;25;02;16 - 00;25;05;25
in my skin in the sense that you know, what I'm doing

00;25;05;25 - 00;25;08;17
right now, it works for me.

00;25;09;00 - 00;25;12;19
I am in the process of launching

00;25;13;15 - 00;25;17;13
a what a hopefully will be actually, you know,

00;25;17;21 - 00;25;20;16
getting back to kind of how we started the show,

00;25;20;25 - 00;25;25;07
launching what hopefully will be a rather large lending platform.

00;25;26;26 - 00;25;30;21
But we're really in the infancy of of that.

00;25;30;21 - 00;25;33;01
And so

00;25;33;03 - 00;25;35;26
I guess that would be it, you know

00;25;35;26 - 00;25;38;00
but right now I have the

00;25;38;00 - 00;25;41;22
the systems and the people are

00;25;43;01 - 00;25;46;07
built to to keep doing the single family stuff.

00;25;46;07 - 00;25;48;22
So again, I'm going to keep doing it until

00;25;50;01 - 00;25;52;12
I feel otherwise about it.

00;25;52;12 - 00;25;55;18
So speaking of systems, it certainly is going to take

00;25;55;18 - 00;25;58;02
a lot of systems to get to that kind of scale.

00;25;58;20 - 00;26;03;06
What do you feel like has been the most important system

00;26;03;06 - 00;26;09;21
you've built to get there?

00;26;09;21 - 00;26;13;03
Man I will tell you, unfortunately,

00;26;13;03 - 00;26;16;11
I don't have this like golden nugget, eye opening

00;26;17;06 - 00;26;19;17
secret system of sorts

00;26;19;17 - 00;26;23;03
that, you know, really catapulted me

00;26;23;03 - 00;26;27;21
from 50 to 150 units.

00;26;27;21 - 00;26;30;22
I was the classic solopreneur

00;26;31;24 - 00;26;34;13
that I didn't really even hire

00;26;34;14 - 00;26;37;22
anybody until I was at like 70 or 80 units.

00;26;37;22 - 00;26;39;15
And I was doing business.

00;26;39;15 - 00;26;44;14
Like basically off the top of my mind, you know, I kind of had this to do list

00;26;44;14 - 00;26;47;24
that was, you know, as good as my my memory would serve me.

00;26;48;17 - 00;26;49;23
I had no systems,

00;26;51;10 - 00;26;53;23
really. So

00;26;53;23 - 00;26;57;10
the most magic occurred for me hands down.

00;26;57;10 - 00;27;00;21
When I started hiring people, you know, people

00;27;02;02 - 00;27;04;29
and delegating

00;27;04;29 - 00;27;08;18
will take you, I think, a lot further than systems.

00;27;08;18 - 00;27;13;08
And also I'm just not a super like kind of tech

00;27;13;08 - 00;27;17;16
oriented person, I guess, if you will.

00;27;17;16 - 00;27;21;07
I love it, You know, if and when it performs as it should.

00;27;21;08 - 00;27;25;19
I love things that are automated and anything that makes life

00;27;26;15 - 00;27;29;21
more just simpler.

00;27;29;21 - 00;27;31;25
So but I just

00;27;31;25 - 00;27;35;23
don't have like even even spreadsheets, you know, I see these people

00;27;35;23 - 00;27;40;02
build out these spreadsheets and I'm like, how in the world do you even do that?

00;27;40;06 - 00;27;41;08
You know?

00;27;41;29 - 00;27;44;07
And again, they're great, but

00;27;45;24 - 00;27;48;29
again, you know, things really, really took off.

00;27;48;29 - 00;27;52;05
I think that I went from buying like 35 houses

00;27;53;06 - 00;27;56;09
until I hired my my first employee.

00;27;56;09 - 00;27;58;18
And I literally went for like buying 35 houses

00;27;58;18 - 00;28;01;18
the year prior to like 70, it literally doubled

00;28;03;00 - 00;28;05;03
the year that she came on board.

00;28;05;22 - 00;28;08;06
So, I mean,

00;28;08;06 - 00;28;12;08
I would tell people really, if anything, I would kind of almost say

00;28;12;08 - 00;28;16;02
in terms of systems, hey, I mean, Google Doc

00;28;16;03 - 00;28;21;07
Docs, Google sheets, I mean, you know, you can run a pretty

00;28;21;07 - 00;28;22;22
I mean, even to this day,

00;28;22;22 - 00;28;26;19
as much as I don't love the fact that we have like 22 spreadsheets,

00;28;26;27 - 00;28;29;29
you know, that that we kind of work through.

00;28;29;29 - 00;28;33;23
But, you know, I get it

00;28;34;03 - 00;28;36;26
just I'm being very repetitive by it.

00;28;37;27 - 00;28;42;06
But things really just shot forward when I started hiring people.

00;28;42;06 - 00;28;43;00
And maybe that's me.

00;28;43;00 - 00;28;47;25
I because I didn't set up this any systems as I should have.

00;28;47;25 - 00;28;48;20
That's the other thing too.

00;28;48;20 - 00;28;51;28
It's not really about what system if I could go back and do it

00;28;51;28 - 00;28;55;14
all over again, even if when it was just myself, set up

00;28;56;13 - 00;28;58;18
a property management software,

00;28;58;18 - 00;29;03;13
you know, organize, get organized and and again,

00;29;03;14 - 00;29;07;13
it doesn't have to be a system with all these fancy bells and whistles.

00;29;07;13 - 00;29;09;29
Just, you know, again, utilize Google,

00;29;10;17 - 00;29;13;24
Google Docs, Google sheets

00;29;13;24 - 00;29;17;14
and and start there.

00;29;17;14 - 00;29;20;26
And, you know, as you grow, you kind of figure out what you need.

00;29;22;09 - 00;29;24;04
That makes a lot of sense

00;29;24;04 - 00;29;28;15
communication, record keeping, those sorts of things.

00;29;28;15 - 00;29;32;16
When you brought on that first employee, what was their

00;29;33;11 - 00;29;36;03
was sort of their their role?

00;29;36;19 - 00;29;40;20
Well, my first hire was supposed to be sort

00;29;40;20 - 00;29;44;28
of an admin role, kind of,

00;29;46;22 - 00;29;48;14
I guess, a catch all for whatever

00;29;48;14 - 00;29;51;13
I wanted to take off my plate, including the tenants.

00;29;52;11 - 00;29;55;04
And it was right around

00;29;56;14 - 00;29;58;21
January 2020 is when I kind of

00;29;59;29 - 00;30;01;15
made the leap from

00;30;02;14 - 00;30;05;05
hiring and really ramping up

00;30;05;05 - 00;30;08;03
and doing consistent marketing.

00;30;09;10 - 00;30;11;19
So I hired

00;30;11;19 - 00;30;16;23
somebody as an admin, but I quickly started doing marketing and,

00;30;16;23 - 00;30;21;10
and he had some experience doing marketing and acquisitions.

00;30;22;01 - 00;30;25;10
So he kind of quickly,

00;30;26;11 - 00;30;27;08
you know,

00;30;27;26 - 00;30;30;16
grew towards that and wanted to really do that.

00;30;30;16 - 00;30;35;06
And also, you know, I was paying him commission so there was more money for it

00;30;35;17 - 00;30;39;03
for him in doing that.

00;30;39;03 - 00;30;42;23
So again, it was kind of an admin

00;30;42;23 - 00;30;44;28
that quickly turned

00;30;45;27 - 00;30;48;00
into an acquisitions person

00;30;48;00 - 00;30;53;16
and then I hired a true kind of office manager that was 2020.

00;30;53;22 - 00;30;59;12
Obviously COVID just, you know, knocked us in the side of the face.

00;30;59;12 - 00;31;03;25
In spring of 2020, I brought on who is my office manager

00;31;04;10 - 00;31;07;11
to this day in early 2021,

00;31;07;11 - 00;31;10;23
and that's who I was referencing, by the way,

00;31;10;29 - 00;31;15;14
when she came on and started just kind of cleaning everything up,

00;31;17;04 - 00;31;17;12
you know,

00;31;17;12 - 00;31;21;22
bookkeeping being one of them, just just, you know, took over paying them.

00;31;21;22 - 00;31;27;11
It just took over a ton of tasks off of my end because because the first hire

00;31;27;20 - 00;31;30;10
he started doing acquisitions and then it was

00;31;31;05 - 00;31;33;29
it actually kind of put more on my plate because I still had to do

00;31;33;29 - 00;31;37;23
all the stuff that I was doing, but I still had to worry about doing marketing

00;31;37;23 - 00;31;43;01
and kind of overseeing him in the acquisitions role of things.

00;31;43;01 - 00;31;48;25
So kind of a, you know, an assistant office manager,

00;31;48;26 - 00;31;51;20
there's there's a ton of different titles you can come up with.

00;31;52;23 - 00;31;56;28
Okay, let's shift gears a little bit.

00;31;56;28 - 00;31;59;01
Outside of real estate.

00;31;59;01 - 00;32;01;04
I know that you have sort of this,

00;32;01;25 - 00;32;06;28
uh, you like to give back, let's say.

00;32;08;02 - 00;32;09;02
Can you tell us a little bit

00;32;09;02 - 00;32;12;03
about how you've how you've been giving back to the community?

00;32;13;10 - 00;32;17;07
Yeah, sure thing. So

00;32;17;21 - 00;32;19;28
my, my wife,

00;32;19;28 - 00;32;22;26
I guess I kind of owe

00;32;23;04 - 00;32;25;07
what we're sitting here talking through it.

00;32;25;07 - 00;32;29;11
I owe my wife maybe more credit

00;32;30;04 - 00;32;32;27
or gratefulness or

00;32;34;24 - 00;32;38;02
than I guess I kind of give her, because, again,

00;32;38;02 - 00;32;44;14
she was the one who kind of nudged me into getting into real estate investment.

00;32;44;14 - 00;32;47;01
And she also was kind of the Kickstarter for doing

00;32;48;00 - 00;32;51;00
these charity events that we're doing these days.

00;32;51;13 - 00;32;53;05
And so

00;32;53;19 - 00;32;56;20
a couple of years ago, I think it was around the holidays,

00;32;56;20 - 00;32;59;24
I think everybody kind of tends to be a little bit more charitable

00;33;01;03 - 00;33;03;05
just by nature around the holidays.

00;33;03;05 - 00;33;05;06
And we were kind of thinking of like, you know what?

00;33;05;06 - 00;33;07;11
What can we do? What what can we do?

00;33;07;25 - 00;33;11;01
And we were just thinking about like kind of like a local,

00;33;11;01 - 00;33;17;02
I think it was a toy drive, but something that to help out schools locally.

00;33;18;02 - 00;33;22;13
And it just kind of grew from we started

00;33;23;10 - 00;33;25;25
we wanted to keep it

00;33;25;25 - 00;33;28;12
on a local level in terms of the charity.

00;33;29;17 - 00;33;32;21
We're kind of asking around and

00;33;32;21 - 00;33;35;13
we had a lot of people saying a lot of great stuff

00;33;35;13 - 00;33;38;27
about this charity, Casey Cares who is local.

00;33;39;03 - 00;33;41;28
There are Colombia, just like I said, my office was.

00;33;42;28 - 00;33;45;09
So we got linked up with them and

00;33;46;27 - 00;33;49;01
we we started doing

00;33;49;01 - 00;33;51;24
at first we did like a charity Happy Hour,

00;33;52;16 - 00;33;55;17
and I'm a big golfer, so

00;33;57;02 - 00;33;59;09
we started last May.

00;33;59;09 - 00;34;04;16
We did our first charity outing as well. So.

00;34;05;22 - 00;34;08;10
So yeah, I mean, you know, that's we,

00;34;08;20 - 00;34;12;15
we may even start our own charity.

00;34;12;15 - 00;34;14;15
My wife may kind of

00;34;16;03 - 00;34;18;00
get into that and

00;34;18;00 - 00;34;21;14
we may start our own thing here.

00;34;21;14 - 00;34;24;18
But either way, you know, we we love doing the events,

00;34;26;00 - 00;34;28;17
admittedly, you know, to kind of be an open book.

00;34;28;17 - 00;34;31;26
I just kind of woke up one day and

00;34;33;14 - 00;34;39;10
I realized that, like I had really failed a lot in terms of just giving back.

00;34;39;10 - 00;34;43;16
You know, there's you say it and you hear it.

00;34;43;25 - 00;34;48;03
And I think it's something that, you know, it's it's very easy to say.

00;34;48;05 - 00;34;51;06
But yeah, you've got to really

00;34;52;14 - 00;34;54;22
it doesn't kind of hit hard as much as it should.

00;34;54;22 - 00;34;57;21
There's just a lot of people that are not as privileged

00;34;57;21 - 00;35;01;21
and that really do kind of need help out there.

00;35;01;21 - 00;35;05;24
And I just kind of was not doing enough to to to give back.

00;35;05;24 - 00;35;07;28
You know, I'm very fortunate

00;35;10;01 - 00;35;13;00
in a lot of different aspects of my life.

00;35;13;00 - 00;35;17;01
And it was like, you know, man, there's you also hear in real estate

00;35;17;01 - 00;35;20;07
a lot of like leaving a legacy and all this other stuff and

00;35;23;09 - 00;35;24;23
yeah, I mean,

00;35;24;23 - 00;35;29;02
you know, it's great that you can kind of pass down real estate from,

00;35;29;20 - 00;35;34;00
you know, myself to my children and or, you know, whoever it might be.

00;35;34;00 - 00;35;37;08
But, you know,

00;35;37;08 - 00;35;41;03
I kind of just wanted to do more to to to kind of give back.

00;35;41;03 - 00;35;43;06
And my wife and I both did, obviously.

00;35;43;06 - 00;35;45;00
So we got started with that.

00;35;45;00 - 00;35;47;03
And we've been kind of rocking and rolling.

00;35;47;15 - 00;35;51;14
We're actually meeting we want to kind of just like real estate,

00;35;51;14 - 00;35;55;03
you know, we we want to be doing bigger and better events.

00;35;55;03 - 00;35;57;28
We're actually meeting in a couple weeks to figure out

00;35;59;06 - 00;36;01;26
how we can do that, how we can

00;36;01;26 - 00;36;04;13
not necessarily the format of the events.

00;36;04;13 - 00;36;08;05
We're still going to keep doing the one happy hour.

00;36;08;05 - 00;36;10;18
We kind of like it to be a little bit more formal

00;36;10;18 - 00;36;14;10
than a happy hour, not not a black tie event.

00;36;14;10 - 00;36;18;17
But, you know, something that that people think of as more than just a happy hour.

00;36;18;17 - 00;36;22;01
And we're already signed up to do that.

00;36;22;01 - 00;36;24;29
The golf outing at the end of May.

00;36;24;29 - 00;36;29;00
But yeah, it's something we want to do more, not necessarily do more,

00;36;29;00 - 00;36;32;27
but we want to we want to just be able to to that that that big check that

00;36;32;28 - 00;36;35;17
that goes to the charity or whatever that charity is.

00;36;35;17 - 00;36;38;11
We want to grow that over time.

00;36;39;15 - 00;36;40;11
But it's it's

00;36;40;11 - 00;36;44;09
really fulfilling stuff, you know and again,

00;36;44;09 - 00;36;48;04
I wasn't really doing much of it at all outside of, you know, maybe, okay,

00;36;48;05 - 00;36;52;03
here's a 20 dollar donation here, here and there. But,

00;36;53;12 - 00;36;56;03
you know, to do something and,

00;36;57;13 - 00;36;59;18
you know, to to hand over ten,

00;36;59;18 - 00;37;03;06
$20,000 to a charity,

00;37;03;06 - 00;37;04;17
it just

00;37;04;18 - 00;37;09;15
it it's it's a lot different and more fulfilling of a feeling than saying

00;37;09;22 - 00;37;13;04
even saying, hey, I bought my 200th house It it really is.

00;37;13;20 - 00;37;16;08
Right Yeah I think we could all do probably do

00;37;16;08 - 00;37;18;14
a little bit more of that, myself included.

00;37;18;14 - 00;37;21;06
Um did, did we talk about what

00;37;21;06 - 00;37;23;21
what Casey Cares does exactly?

00;37;24;11 - 00;37;26;14
What type of organization are they?

00;37;26;14 - 00;37;30;19
Casey Cares at their core they help out

00;37;32;09 - 00;37;36;20
children that are going through health issues essentially.

00;37;37;02 - 00;37;40;29
Okay mainly cancer most of which are terminal it's

00;37;41;12 - 00;37;44;05
they're kind of a I guess,

00;37;44;05 - 00;37;47;24
a local version of like a Make-A-Wish Foundation.

00;37;47;24 - 00;37;51;04
You know, they're they're trying to give kids

00;37;51;04 - 00;37;57;05
that are in a very poor health state, just something

00;37;57;05 - 00;38;02;13
to kind of take their mind off of them being sick, you know, So

00;38;03;13 - 00;38;03;27
it could

00;38;03;27 - 00;38;06;23
be as simple as going to the movies one night,

00;38;07;00 - 00;38;10;01
going to an Orioles game, going to a Ravens game,

00;38;11;12 - 00;38;14;09
maybe if they just need

00;38;14;09 - 00;38;16;11
help in terms of,

00;38;16;11 - 00;38;19;20
you know, clothing or whatever it might be.

00;38;20;01 - 00;38;23;04
But just really, again, helping

00;38;24;16 - 00;38;28;22
really not only not only the children, but the families of children

00;38;28;22 - 00;38;31;13
that are just dealing with a lot

00;38;32;03 - 00;38;34;04
of on the health side of things.

00;38;35;04 - 00;38;36;25
Okay. I love that.

00;38;36;25 - 00;38;38;13
We're going to make sure to get some information

00;38;38;13 - 00;38;40;09
in the show notes about Casey Cares.

00;38;40;09 - 00;38;44;16
So if anybody listening to check them out, they can do that.

00;38;45;05 - 00;38;47;13
That sounds like a great organization.

00;38;47;13 - 00;38;48;08
Yeah. Yeah.

00;38;48;08 - 00;38;52;25
I mean, and, you know, again, another cliche phrase is just,

00;38;53;17 - 00;38;58;26
you know, you don't have to be necessarily doing running like these charity events.

00;38;58;26 - 00;39;04;27
Like, we are just you know, I kind of put myself down for saying,

00;39;04;27 - 00;39;08;21
oh, I was only giving, you know, $20 here and there.

00;39;08;21 - 00;39;12;09
But at the end of the day,

00;39;12;09 - 00;39;15;17
you know, everybody's throwing in ten or 20 bucks

00;39;15;17 - 00;39;18;25
and just chipping in a little bit really does.

00;39;18;25 - 00;39;22;00
I mean, that that that makes a world of difference.

00;39;23;20 - 00;39;24;04
You know, I

00;39;24;04 - 00;39;28;24
kind of we kind of went 0 to 100 in terms of organizing these events.

00;39;28;24 - 00;39;31;02
But, you know, hey, just

00;39;31;09 - 00;39;34;05
finding a charity that you like and just giving them

00;39;34;05 - 00;39;38;23
a $50 donation two or three times a year is just huge.

00;39;38;23 - 00;39;40;01
You know, if if

00;39;40;01 - 00;39;43;17
a few hundred people started doing that, it would make all the difference.

00;39;44;27 - 00;39;46;12
It really would.

00;39;46;27 - 00;39;48;04
I love that idea.

00;39;48;04 - 00;39;50;10
I'm going to go ahead and make a donation myself.

00;39;51;05 - 00;39;54;18
So yeah, absolutely.

00;39;54;18 - 00;39;56;24
Matt, There's one other thing

00;39;56;28 - 00;40;00;13
that I think I had on my list here to talk about.

00;40;00;23 - 00;40;05;00
You've done in the past, I don't know, maybe a year or so.

00;40;05;08 - 00;40;08;22
I work with some other investors and doing some workshops and

00;40;09;21 - 00;40;12;18
are you still doing those?

00;40;12;18 - 00;40;14;17
I am, yeah. They we

00;40;16;09 - 00;40;19;18
were doing them all on a monthly basis there.

00;40;19;18 - 00;40;22;25
I think we started, I want to say April or May and

00;40;24;05 - 00;40;26;26
we I did one for about five or six months straight.

00;40;27;12 - 00;40;28;19
I like doing them.

00;40;28;19 - 00;40;30;06
It's a real small setting.

00;40;30;06 - 00;40;32;29
It's about five or six people

00;40;34;03 - 00;40;36;11
right here in my office in this room.

00;40;37;00 - 00;40;39;01
So it's actually kind of outgrown this office.

00;40;39;01 - 00;40;43;26
So my my office is actually the old conference room.

00;40;44;15 - 00;40;48;15
So but yeah, you know, it's something

00;40;48;15 - 00;40;52;10
that that I do like doing that,

00;40;53;16 - 00;40;56;13
you know, I kind of do them on a demand basis.

00;40;56;13 - 00;41;01;06
I don't really put a whole lot of time into marketing outside

00;41;01;06 - 00;41;05;29
of throwing up a Facebook post every once in a while about them.

00;41;05;29 - 00;41;09;21
I don't really, you know, market them and kind of

00;41;10;24 - 00;41;11;12
kind of chase

00;41;11;12 - 00;41;14;00
people down to to participate in them.

00;41;14;12 - 00;41;15;19
But yes, I do.

00;41;15;19 - 00;41;18;04
I do offer that.

00;41;18;04 - 00;41;19;23
I'd like to do one in the spring.

00;41;19;23 - 00;41;22;17
We'll kind of see what happens. We'll see where the demand is.

00;41;22;17 - 00;41;24;18
But it's it's two days.

00;41;24;18 - 00;41;27;00
I kind of just I'm an open book

00;41;27;18 - 00;41;30;28
and I open that that book up,

00;41;30;28 - 00;41;34;01
so to speak, for for two days, just kind of 9 to 5.

00;41;34;01 - 00;41;38;13
We talk about talk about everything marketing, acquisitions, construction

00;41;38;13 - 00;41;44;22
rentals, even just general business mindset and goal setting.

00;41;44;22 - 00;41;48;11
What we actually in on here today as well.

00;41;48;11 - 00;41;52;24
So so yeah, you know, if somebody happens to have some interest in that,

00;41;52;24 - 00;41;55;27
they can certainly reach out to me and we could discuss it further.

00;41;56;17 - 00;41;56;26
Great.

00;41;56;26 - 00;42;00;16
Yeah, we'll make sure to get your contact info in the show notes.

00;42;00;16 - 00;42;01;27
And I've had

00;42;02;28 - 00;42;06;00
to be honest, I think some of the folks we've had on this podcast

00;42;06;00 - 00;42;09;12
have been in that conference room with you for your workshops,

00;42;09;12 - 00;42;10;14
and I've heard a lot of great things.

00;42;10;14 - 00;42;14;25
So yeah, if you guys are interested in that, be sure to reach out to Matt.

00;42;15;21 - 00;42;17;10
It sounds like he's going to be having more of those,

00;42;17;10 - 00;42;21;02
so, um, Matt, it was awesome to have you on.

00;42;21;15 - 00;42;26;01
Thank you for taking the time out and, and talking to us about your story

00;42;26;01 - 00;42;29;26
and for giving back and sharing that with us too.

00;42;29;26 - 00;42;34;18
I think that's not often talked about in the real estate world,

00;42;34;18 - 00;42;36;12
and it's something we could all be doing a little more of.

00;42;36;12 - 00;42;38;09
So thank you for that.

00;42;38;09 - 00;42;39;08
Yeah, not a problem.

00;42;39;08 - 00;42;43;22
Again, I appreciate you having me on and I'm glad

00;42;43;22 - 00;42;48;07
to link up and jump on and kind of talk some shop with you.

00;42;48;07 - 00;42;49;20
Yeah, man, it's always good.

00;42;49;20 - 00;42;51;29
Next time I'm in Baltimore, we have to get together.

00;42;52;05 - 00;42;54;04
Be good to see you. Absolutely. Let’s do it.

00;42;55;07 - 00;42;57;06
Thanks again, Matt.